A-Sac vs. Kayla

vanessasarah · #1 01-23-2010

I just read an IG article with Kayla in which she says she'd love to try competing against A-Sac.
Here's what I could find with my totally unexpert finding skillz on gymnastics results:
A-Sac (using 08 nationals day 2)
vt: 6.3 D/9.7 E/ 16.0
ub: n/a
bb: 6.4 D/9.1 E /15.5
fx: 6.2 D/ 9.5 E/ 15.7
Kayla (09 nationals)
vt: 5.8 D/9.3 E and 5.0 D/8.9 E (compared with Worlds, she got 9.125 E score...still dont know where they found that!)
ub: 4.6 D/7.7 E/ 12.3
bb: 5.4/ 8.65/ 14.05
fx: 5.6/8.65/14.25
So...by competing bars at all, even though they are clearly her weak point, Kayla has a slight edge over A-Sac since she can do AA. However, she cannot do AA well enough at this point to be a serious contender for an AA spot on any teams...I think it will be very, very interesting to see what happens if/when ASac comes back and attempts to challenge Kayla! Kayla has shown an Amanar, although I don't know how it would score. I dont think A-Sac's rumored Amanar ever showed up.
Add to the equation Kytra Hunter, who I think joins Kayla in being one of the most powerful tumblers out there right now...2010 could be interesting!

LilyPod · #2 01-23-2010

Sacramone has said that she plans to come back with an Amanar and front handspring double twist (that's her Rudi with another half-twist. right? What would it be worth?). I imagine she's going to up her game now especially...

Alicia did say she was going to focus on vault and beam, and sounded unsure about getting back to floor, whereas Kayla probably has a higher chance of doing floor than beam. So while they would be head-to-head on vault, depending on how Alicia's comeback goes, I think it's possible that they could both be selected for the 2010 World Team.

Honestly, I'm really not a fan of either of their gymnastics, as I find it very unartistic and not the style I prefer. But between the two of them, I definitely prefer Alicia. I always admired how clean her form was on her vaults and tumbling passes, and her leaps are better too, in my opinion. (though she may very well not do floor in the future...)

If Alicia is back to form at the 2010 National's, the vault showdown should be interesting indeed...

Gymmie · #3 01-23-2010

I would LOVE to see a showdown between these two American powerhouses!!!!!!!!!!!!

inbarstalderfull · #4 01-23-2010

The thing about the scores you used is that there's no accounting for the change in the CoP from 2008 to 2009 as well as the sharp decline in E-Scores after the Olympics. Alicia rarely (if ever?) got a B-Score below 9.5 on her vaults in domestic competitions; it's almost impossible to achieve that feat today (I think only Ivana or Becca did it at the most recent Nats).

Alicia is rumored to be upgrading her vaults, but only time will tell. It also stands to be seen if she's really going to do floor or ease herself back in with vault and beam. If she does that, Kayla can do vault and floor.

Neither of them should be doing bars (hopefully Martha has already ordered Kayla to stop training them), and we all know Alicia won't touch them. Also, the U.S. will have Sloan, Bross, and hopefully Memmel for bars next year, with (an ideally) reworked Hong.

I don't think the biggest obstacle in A-Sac's comeback is Kayla. I think Raisman could throw a wrench into things depending on how ready she is by camps and Nationals. If she's truly "mini-Alicia," and real Alicia is performing to a subpar degree, Martha might have to take the girl who can do a 3.5 twist.

Like I said, only time will tell....but I hope we can have both Kayla and Alicia together—raw power working towards the gold. They would balance out the rest of the team so that no one has to do AA in TF and allow more people to specialize and upgrade for higher scores (BARS!).

alattejavatoo · #5 01-24-2010

Another key factor in the Alicia/Kayla showdown is how each of them copes with the pressure. We all know Alicia tends to choke but Kayla is unknown. Last year because she was new there was "that" much expected of her. Now she's a world champion and there is a lot of expected of her. I am most looking forward to seeing Kayla.

vanessasarah · #6 01-24-2010

Oh I totally forgot about Raisman. We'll have to see...
Kayla showed some pretty rock solid consistency at Worlds, but then again, that was just one test, and Alicia has had tons.
I'd actually like Kayla to keep doing bars. They are definitely not her stregnth, and she will never do them in international competition, but I think training all 4 events is a good idea. Especially because Kayla is headed to NCAA. I just prefer all arounders if they can manage it.

Purple · #7 01-24-2010

It looked to me as though Marta's comment to Alicia (that no one was doing vault) which prompted Alicia's comeback was made prematurely before Martha knew about Kayla. I think Kayla's emergence has made Alicia's comeback unnecessary for team purposes (obviously Alicia can comeback for Alicia). But Alicia had already announced her comeback (was it at Classic or Nationals? I forget). I truly wonder if Alicia would've started her return journey if she had known about Kayla at the time.

inbarstalderfull · #8 01-24-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple

It looked to me as though Marta's comment to Alicia (that no one was doing vault) which prompted Alicia's comeback was made prematurely before Martha knew about Kayla. I think Kayla's emergence has made Alicia's comeback unnecessary for team purposes (obviously Alicia can comeback for Alicia). But Alicia had already announced her comeback (was it at Classic or Nationals? I forget). I truly wonder if Alicia would've started her return journey if she had known about Kayla at the time.

Yes, I remember this! In Alicia's interview with Andrea Joyce, she said something like, "Martha came over to me and said, 'No one's vaaaullttting ,'" which leads me to believe that Martha didn't quite know what she had with Kayla. However, Alicia can bring in huge numbers on vault and beam (is she still not doing floor?), so we'll see. I think they can both be huge assets to the team.

sareliz86 · #9 01-24-2010

The comparison with scores really can't be done because of the different codes of points that they competed under.

There really isn't a scientific way to compare the two that doesn't involve at least some speculation.

However, I'd say that Kayla certainly has her age and lack of serious injury on her side. They're about a dead-even match on vault, and I would expect an amanar (OR TTY) from Williams along with an improved rudi. Regardless as to what Alicia might say about a double twisting front, I think we'll likely only see a rudi and amanar from her.

On the other 2 that both compete there is no question that Alicia, in top form, is head and shoulders better than anything we've seen from Kayla. But, considering that Alicia is dealing with a comeback situation and a worn out body, and that what we've seen of Kayla was an unpolished VERY new elite, I'd say that they probably will be about even when all is said and done.

Whether or not they're redundant doesn't really matter. With a 5 member team there is more of a need for AA gymnasts and whoever can score highest on the MOST events will have the greatest chances. Basically, I'd say that because Sac and Williams are both so lopsided, their odds for 2012 really aren't that wonderful. Not when there are AA gymnasts like Wieber who can do excellent Amanars.

Yes, the U.S. NEEDS vault and bar workers, but saying there is a huge void really is impossible until about 2011 and we see what all of the juniors can do and how everybody upgrades and paces.

If anything, having Williams, Sacramone AND Raisman on the national team is absolutely excellent. They will all be vying for the same spot and they will force each other to constantly improve and perform when it counts.

Nobody knows how things are going to shake out and nobody knows which of the two (or three) is better or who has the most potential. Let's let 2010, 2011 and 2012 --and the gymnasts-- speak for themselves. Let's let them compete against each other.

gymlove · #10 01-24-2010

I really like them, but I don't think that there is room for both of them on a worlds team. I guess the US could just put 4 girls up in prelims on bars, but I don't think that either of them should be competing there.

I think that Kayla could be more valuable if Alicia doesn't do floor. Alicia's beam is good, but I don't know if she is consistent enough to do it in team finals at worlds.

Vault wise, I think they're equal. Whoever has the higher D scores will likely make the team, but they both seem to be planning upgrades. Alicia doesn't really stick her vaults very often, but Kayla does. I haven't seen much from Kayla, though. It'll be interesting to see a possible face off at nationals.