MAG vs WAG

[medstudent24]

Why is it that men's gymnastics is thriving, while women's appears to be on a downward spiral? Some people here (myself included) noted that the men's competition at Worlds was far more exciting than the women's. Was this an isolated incident or is it the beginning of a trend? Even going back every single event after the olympics, the men have given us better execution, more difficulty, and a lot more to cheer for.

In my honest opinion, WAG has been stagnant for awhile now, and recently has reached an all time low. Girls are doing the same skills they did 20 years ago, most of them with far worse execution. Vault, the only area where some innovation can be seen, remains the least popular event.

MAG, in contrast, continues to evolve and exceed its own expectations. From Liukin's triple back 2 decades ago, to Horton's triple/double off HB just last year, they keep pushing boundaries in what is possible. Are women just not capable of this? Is someone or something to blame? Last year the Euros left a lot to be desired, this Worlds followed on the same trend. A lot of those routines were simply sub par. With very few exceptions, routines were carbon copies of each other (does anyone here also think that Nastia's and Ivana's BB are a little too similar)? There's a lot of fuss around new talent, but I fail to see it. Where are the Dudniks, the Onodis, and the Yang Bos of our time? The argument that this is a post-olympic year is getting tired. That doesn't excuse poor execution, or deplorable artistry.

And yet it amazes me why so many 'fans', including some in this board don't mention the amazing things going on in MAG. You want artistry AND difficulty? Watch Hypolito and Shatilov on FX, Dragulescu on VT, Cassina and Zonderland on HB. Those EFs for the men were truly a display of magic. The winner was NOT decided by who didn't fall, but by who was the most dazzling. There was a time when WAG was like that, but that time I'm afraid is long gone.

It's odd that 'fans' embraced Bross' entry into the senior ranks, but ignored John Orozco's technically near flawless performances at Nationals. And where's the fanfare for Leyva and McNeil? Where's the 'Fabian Hambuchen appreciation thread'? Instead we get hordes of people fawning over girls who pale in both artistry and execution to the immense young talent on the Men's side. A gymnastics fan should be able to recognize great gymnasts, regardless of gender. I get it's an issue of popularity, but I frankly expect more from people who are always raving that there aren't enough truly artistic gymnasts left.

I'm truly interested in hearing your opinions.

[lepetitpoulet]

I totally get what you're saying. The men's competitions were so much better. It was actually exciting to watch. I took 2 friends who are clueless about gymnastics to the sunday finals, I thought they'd enjoy the beam... you know "how they manage to do that on a 4 inch wide beam etc..." but instead they were yawning and asking me when the men were back on. No exageration!

The french federation only sent 2 girls, as though, what's the point in sending more girls just to waste money... the french guys were sitting next to me, Samir Ait Said, Benoit Carnobe, etc... and as soon as the girls came out, they were like, later we're out of here let's go to the cafeteria. It definitely used to be that the girls got the spotlight in gymnastics. I too wonder if there is a shift towards MAG... But maybe the juniors will come to save the day, Komova and the likes. I love Mag and WAG equally, but WAG'd better sort itself out. You said it, these worlds were like Euros 2009, very anti-climatic... you look back and there's nothing to look back on! except a few routines like He Kexin's and very few others.

I don't know what to think about WAG, It's become kind of fugly to watch, and like you said the one who doesn't fall wins... well even that is not a given. But it's really working for men, they're upping their game and they are succesful at that. Maybe it's a physical thing, women are too delicate for the turn things have taken and the requirements are too much for their bodies?

[workethic]

I am a huge MAG fan. As you can guess from my picture, Paul Hamm's AA win is my favorite moment in gymnastics. The men seem to defy gravity every time they compete. However, it is really difficult to follow MAG, primarily because the YouTube coverage is dismal. I think that's a big reason that we don't see as much of a following on these boards.

To be fair, men's AA competitions have been lacking recently. EF are amazing, but the AA have all been blowouts with many falls. That's not any more appealing than the ladies.

[glaundry]

I don't see what's so odd or amazing that somebody doesn't like MAG. I'll prefer WAG up until it becomes a complete MAG clone and then I'll stop watching the sport entirely. Well, I guess I'll still watch old competitions on youtube.

[Joana]

WAG is becoming more and more like MAG - a watered down, shakey, wobbly, insecure version of MAG, that is. Seems like the girls just want to do the difficult routines they simply cannot perform the way men do, which is only logical as men have the biological advantage there. All that WAG had going for them, not only artistry but also grace, ellegance, clean execution and the "wow" factor seems to be going away. The biggest "wow" factor at the WC was "Wow, she's going to fall any second!"

I also enjoyed the men more at Worlds.

[Senor Nico]

Men's competitions have certainly been interesting probably because the field has been deeper than the women as of late. But I would say that men's routines have definitely begun to suffer from the Code as well. It's really hard to find anything beautiful about FX, PH, SR, and PB anymore. Because the guys still count 10 elements, those routines are super crammed. Routines have especially gone downhill on FX and PB where routine flow is virtually non-existent, and the men are chucking the same skills as the next guy. It's easy to see how exhausted the guys look after their routines nowadays!

[Mally]

better execution, more difficulty, and a lot more to cheer for.

Really! I think most of the men had atrocious form and execution. They also chuck skills just as much if not moreso than the girls. There is almost no artistic expression in men's gymnastics today. I'm not saying this to bash on the men because I do like watching them, I just disagree with the main premise of this thread.
Do you remember the olympics, other than a few I was shocked at how sloppy event finals were

[SvetlanaBaitovaFan]

In my opinion the enitre sport is in a downward spiral. The men usually seem to chuck skills, I actually watched mens EF from worlds and i'm appauled that NBC can't seem to understand that gymnasts are supposed to be pointing their toes. I specifically remember a Chinese guy on the pommel horse and his feet where so horrendous but Tim just kept saying "Great Form, Great Form". But it is much more interesting to watch than WAG at the moment.

WAG is much worse though. The routines have gotten sluggish and don't look like gymnasts put any effort into the skills, especially on UB they girls are just moving so slow. Expression on Floor is at an all time low. Looks like the coaches hired the same choreographers Disney uses. The sport is just so frustrating at the moment I can't even watch some 80s routines because that makes the sport nowadays look even worse. Someone needs to stand up to Grandi and completly re-do the code so that Artistry, Execution, and Difficulty can be valued equally. Its time for someone to take a stand before Grandi decides to **** up the sport even more.

[lepetitpoulet]

oh you mean Zou Kai... yeah he got a lot of golds, but have you seen gymnasts such Deferr Gervasio or Yann Cucherat's routines? just to name two who had brilliant artistry

[nlm2183]

I think part of what makes Worlds for the men exciting even early in the quad is that a lot of these men have been competing for so many years, so we know who they are, and they have built up their resumes. We have appreciated some of these guys for years and are looking forward to seeing all the stars match up. Usually we don't go through much of a period where the majority of the competitors are brand new or just starting to emerge as stars. The newer men's competitors seem to more gradually come on the scene. There is a quicker turnover rate for female gymnasts, it seems.

The male field also seem to have more gymnasts who specialize in certain events, so we usually come to expect to see certain guys make event finals, and there is usually a number of guys who should really challenge for medals in a few events.